Best PAMM Forex Brokers for 2020 - fx-list.com

New things ...

New things ...
I'm going to start doing some new things. First I want to do a quick round up of things I've been doing recently and responses of those who spam my posts calling me names.
I've tried to make some sort of reasonable progress with these people;

Things I’ve tried to this point;
I tried - Asking who they think it is that was scammed and offering to pay them back if there is any case to be made. I also offer to pay people just for being able to name scam victims.
Response - There were no scam victims to be named. Discussion was never focused on this. It was largely name calling directed against me and changing of the subject.
I tried - Offering to hold a video call with any person or numbers of persons in which they could ask me questions. We could discuss things amicably and make some sort of progress. I offered to record the whole thing so it could be posted for all to see.
Response - This offer was ignored at first. I asked over 10 times and finally I got a reply, “I’ll video chat your dumb gay ass”. I tried to arrange a time and date and there were no further replies.
I tried - Offering to copy trades onto an account which they opened and there was no way I could manipulate. They’d have a record of every single trade I took/posted and be able to show people the real outcome of my trades. I offered to do this for at least 6 months.
Response - Entirely ignored, and continued to speculate that all my trades are losing and if I say otherwise I am lying.
I tried - Setting up an account to track trades and display results publicly. In this account after 900 trades have been made the win rate is almost exactly 35% and the account is profitable. It trends up (losses never going under starting balance). 35% win rate is the specific number I’ve said for 6 months I needed to be profitable - what are the chances I could fake this?
Response - Continue to ignore that the strategy is net profitable and say I am a loser any time there is a single event which is a loss. This can be one down day, sometimes just one down trade and many times the account is actually profitable but it required one update and change of position to achieve this, so my first statement was wrong (And profitability in move ignored).

Results mentioed above.
https://preview.redd.it/7ls0nel31ih51.png?width=902&format=png&auto=webp&s=64853b3867a6866bb23cb555c5e3c4321fe55ce5
https://preview.redd.it/md1iyyx81ih51.png?width=909&format=png&auto=webp&s=f0f66b562011cf992d5e25fd8d03583781b7956f
I'm not going to bother running a demo accout portfolio anymore. I'll set up a real accoutn portfolio for marketing purposes, but I'll leave this accout running. This is a copy of what any one of these people calling me any number of names are welcome to have a free copying account for - all I asked them to do is share the results I generate alongside the stories they generate.
I'll leave this updating (For yrs) for you all to see and remember at all the offer is open to skeptics - I want you to see every single one of my trades, and then tell people the truth. Please do that. Send me a message to get a copying account. Here's a link to the updating account. http://www.myfxbook.com/members/autocopyfx/dean-black-low-risk/6632281
My risk of ruin stats give me a 001% chance of losing 10% because trading the way I am (Based on closed trades) I'd have to lose over 750 trades in a row for that to happen. All of this is entirely consistent with everything I've said over the last 6 months. During the time of this trading the market is up 2%, and I have not lost. I am up 3%. Doing exactly what I say I do.

https://preview.redd.it/fzjxy4vf4ih51.png?width=883&format=png&auto=webp&s=a38df77b7b634a4b32652ae8ccad05ffb67ae48b
I’ve done various things to collate results and allow for the objective analysis of these. They have now deleted the content in the Discord servers - apparently if you don’t save backups people delete it. Seems like a strange system to me. But they did tell me when they deleted free training I put there (That people wanted, that was selfish) how they did it and I never bothered to look up what it was/how to fix it.
It seems the more I do to make it possible to move forward amicably the more abuse I get and the more disruptive they aim to become. I won’t get into name calling, but I do not think this is befitting of the values they promote. Nor do I think they have any credibility at this point, but that’s up to the individual.
They justify these things with claims I am clandestinely marketing in the hope of executing some sort of scam and you, dear unsuspecting reader. I’ve tried all the other things I could think of, so I’ll try really marketing products and doing full and transparent displays of the results of my clients and I. See if even running profitable services through regulated partners works.
I really didn’t want to do retail services, but over the last 6 months these people have told endless lies about me. Went on campaigns to spread these lies actively. Alongside these lies posted addresses I assume they believe me to stay at and delete chunks of my work - and I’ve decided I’m going to give them what they ask for. A lot of it. More than they’d have expected.
Since I am now marketing services, I will do live tracking of results on all of the products offered. Everything will be verified by results tracking software.

The New Things


Signals Script.

I’ll come up with a better name, but for now it does what it says on the tin. It’s a script that will display signals for you inside of a MT4 trading platform.

This will come in, at least, three versions.
Version one: A simple script that will display text alert signals inside the MT4 platform. The scripts will be “Use once” and new scripts will be sent out when there are new signas/trade plans. The alerts will give information on highlighted trading opportunities and market conditions. Training on applicable strategies to use in such conditions will be provided.

Version one will have multiple improvements added. Features to automatically tell you what position sizes to use to risk 1% (Calculated by your account size and stop loss) and some other things to make it a bit more user friendly. Trend strength analysis via moving averages, ATR, ADX, RSI will also be added. Signalling strong, medium and weak trends.
Signals inputted will come in two forms. Some will be manually picked signals. This is to say I look at the chart, decide the trade and then these are put into the script to generate this signal. Others will be automated. For example the script may be told to watch a moving average and only generate the, pre-defined, signal if price closes oveunder this level.
Version one will only be an alerts system. You drag and drop it onto the chart, it pings and prints out some information. It’s a testing period. Both to ensure the scripts work properly on the users end and also for people to get a chance to see the performance of the signals generated.
Version two will add the option of semi automation. In version two there will be the option to use scripts that already have the information in them to tell the trading platform to place pending orders. When you drag the script onto the chart there will be a place to pick percentage risk (Set to 1% by default) and an option to ‘Enable live trading’. If you enable live trading and click okay the scripts will then automatically set pending orders risking the percentage you have chosen or the default 1%.
Improvements will probably be made to version two to add a feature where as well as generating the text signals information the script can also set up a chart for you. So for example if the signal was, “Buy a break of the downward trendline”; the script would also be able to draw this trendline on the chart for you.
In the above example this script can also “Watch” the trendline and generate the signal when it breaks giving exact info on enter, stop loss, take profit and position size, but in version two for this to work you’d have to reload the script. Version two has no auto-updating features. In MT4 a script runs once and to run again has to be reloaded by the user.
Version three: Version three will move towards nearly complete automation. In version one market conditions are established and from there what strategies would be best are highlighted. In version two the script can watch different indicators to tell you when interesting things happen and what sort of positions can be placed to risk X%. Version three brings them together..
In version three there are still alerts that talk about what sort of market conditions we may have and the optimum strategy for this, but also provided alongside this there’s auto-trading capabilities. Take our example of a trendline break in version 2, in version 3 every tick the script runs again and can signal the moment it breaks, it can also then place the pre-defined trade.
Different automated trading strategies work in some conditions but very few of them can work in all conditions. So although in some cases these will be able to run profitably for long periods of time these are not entirely “Set and forget” systems. There will be times when one system has to be turned off and alternative systems used.
All three versions will be designed to run in MetaTrader 4 (MT4), which is the mostly widely available free trading platform. Endless brokers offer accounts with MT4. It may or may not be adapted to also work on MT5, but I don’t think many people use that anyway.
Versions one and two will be entirely free services. They are there to let people see for themselves inside their own trading accounts the performance. Demo accounts and can be used and results seen over time. Versions one and two will probably continue to run indefinitely, although after some time mainly by automated signals rather than manual input ones.
In version three I will probably make all the scripts for the auto-trading publicly available to all, but run a subscription service to follow updates on what specific trading patterns I am using in different types of market conditions and the exact settings I have trading different assets. Optimum settings for both low risk and high gain will be tracked.
All the automated trading software will come with settings to set a max loss where it will stop trading and close all trades. This gives you a lot of control over your risk.

PAMM / MAM Accounts.

PAMM and MAM accounts offer fully passive investment. These accounts are run via licenced brokers. The client opens a brokerage account and an agreement is signed between the client and trader to allow trades from the traders account to be copied onto the clients account. Fees are also agreed and these are paid automatically from the broker to the trader.

The structure of these sorts of accounts is there to protect the interests of all parties. Clients want first and foremost to know their money is with a reputable company with appropriate regulation and routes of recourse, should they be required. The traders want to make sure they get paid for the profits generated. Brokers play the intermediary here benefiting all sides.
Agreements are made in the form of Limited Power of Attorney (LPoA). This grants the trader only the ability to send trades to your account. It gives no access to the account itself or money it in. Deposits funds (and profits) can only ever be withdrawn to the entity who deposited it, as per industry standard anti-money laundering laws.
MAM accounts will be used more than PAMM, with PAMM only being used when it’s required. The models are similar in most ways but a MAM account provides more transparity to the client. In a MAM account you can see the exact trades you can do (in real time) and all of the closed trades. PAMM is more like a blackbox. It just displays wins and losses in $ only.
Fees on PAMM / MAM accounts will be 35% performance fees using the High Water Mark (HWM) system. HWM is considered to be the fairest of all the billing structures. In some billing structures if you lose $1,000 one month and gain $500 the next month, this is a +$500 month liable to be billed $175 commissions. This is detrimental to clients profitability.
In the HWM system there are only commissions due once the account makes new all time highs. So if the starting account was $10,000 and it went +$1,000 the HWM is now set at $11,000. Everything under $11,000 and the client account is losing relative to HWM and the trader is not paid. Payments only become active again in a month closed over $11,000.

Training Courses.

I’ll put together some training material on different sorts of strategies and when/how to use them. A lot of this I’ll probably just make publicly available for free. I’ve already disclosed much of the information and it would just be putting it all together in one place. I’ll probably do some paid ones in the niches I think the most lucrative opportunities are.

I think the years ahead my main focus is going to become creating strategies for selling options and using these as an income source. I see a lot of potential in this, especially if it is coupled with a “Babysitting bot” to run automated strategies to hedge the options you’ve sold in an underlying market (Like the futures markets).
I may also do some stuff on how to automate trading strategies. From how to design a strategy, how to write the code (Or outsource this) and how to backtest and optimize the strategy. This is a pretty broad and intimidating topic and not something I’ll be doing in the near future. But this is something there will always be high demand for, so I might do it later.

Over the next 24 hours I'll post a lot of swing analysis and stuff to replace the content that was deleted from the Discord. My plan for this month has always been to wait for the last week of the month and look for weakness. If I see weakness I will start to short aggressively in the month of September. I want to sell SPX on a retest of 3330 (It has to go under there first) and I think this will be sometime next week.
Once I've posted the swing analysis I am going to be very quiet for a few days while I work on putting the foundations of all this together. I'd planned to just keep doing the Discord thing, but they deleted the stuff there and things move on. Now we'll do things that can not be deleted.

You can watch the resultsof my trades during the time I am working quietly and not posting regular updates on my positions here. As soon I start to market services I'll set up live accounts to track these services. Once we're about a year into it I'll start to get all of my investment account audited regularly by one of the Big Four - that'd have been very helpful before.

Here are my current positions.
https://preview.redd.it/wd4bx8824ih51.png?width=883&format=png&auto=webp&s=c441310728a52055042e382ae796f17194b9aabd
submitted by 2020sbear to u/2020sbear [link] [comments]

Running a ponzi and stealing $180K, IRL.


I wanted to write a quick post in answer to the people who routinely make claims I have a history of stealing from people in my previous company and base this upon a blog they read. If you would like to discuss this further, please make a post and link it to me to engage on. I will do so as long as we deal with the facts of how a PAMM company really works.
I won't engage in circular debates where the essential point is, "I don't believe you". You don't have to - that's not how any of this works. Just fact check.

Anti-SEO:

I want to avoid Google ranking on this post. Although for my personal 'PR' it would be beneficial to aim to rank something answering claims, at some points in this some others involved in the company will not really come over in the best light. I assume it's likely these people are still involved things (Not spoke with them for 5 yrs) - It'd be unfair to rank bad PR on them.

The failure of the company was squarely due to me. Anything anyone else did either would not have happened or not have mattered if I'd done better. I do not want anything I do now to further hinder anyone.

So I will refer to names by only one letter (or number if applicable).

Ponzi Claims:


I found it strange at the time this ended up centred around the ponzi scheme side of things. There was a reasonable question to be asked and answered as to if it was a pyramid scheme. Were people signing up just to sign people up, or was there a core product of fair market value. The services sold I'd previously ran at the same sort of price point direct to market - so I felt on fairly good ground on that.
Initially I's actually been a bit excited initially, because I was a reader of the blog in question and I liked the work they'd done on pyramid schemes. I thought I'd be able to either validate I was doing things right, or learn how I should be doing them better. I never thought the ponzi side of it would take any more than a few minutes to clear up. But that was not so ...
A ponzi scheme was to all intents and purposes impossible. All of our business was done via three different brokers and all of our results publicly tracked with close to real time updates for marketing purposes. Of the three brokers we were using, two of them had good regulation. An off-shore broker had to be used for US clients, so this is the only one with any sort of question mark.
All of our results over all the brokers were almost identical (Some execution/costs variance). The two regulated brokers were under different regulators. Most, if not all, the brokers held clients funds in segregated accounts. All brokers would have to have been fully complicit in the scam - and it costs more to get regulated than there was to steal. Logically, it could not have been so.
We were using a PAMM model. This works by the client opening a brokerage account and signing a LPoA to allow trades to be copied onto their account. The LPoA grants the company no access to the funds. Money laundering laws also dictate the funds can only be redeemed to same source they were funded. PAMMs are big business. Protection of all parties is built into it, it's a well trusted model.
This should have taken no less than 5 minutes to self verify. It could not have been a ponzi.

£50,000 Fine:


That happened. Turns out if you set up a PAMM in the Netherlands and then let a bunch of people refer investment to it this is classed as running a ... I can't remember exactly and even at the time it was in Dutch so I didn't personally read it all. The underlying problem was not the model in any way. We were told at the time we basically jut had to pay £2,000 for each country we did business in.
We were global. At this time the company had neither the money to do that, or pay the fine they gave us for not having the money to do that.
My mistaken assumption was that since when you run a PAMM you are basically piggybacking off the broker's licence, all was well and good. This was true - but the problem was sourcing. Paying people to refer investment was what we were fined for when you get right down to it.

$180,000 Stolen:


This was just a headline. In many ways it's misleading. Firstly, nothing was stolen or even taken. It was lost or given away to clients who'd lost in the PAMMs that went bad. All the money lost was lost trying to get enough money to make good all the PAMMs. So it was not stolen, and there is nothing in anyway to imply that's a suitable word to use. In the blog, no explanation of that is offered.
What seems to be inferred is that this was commissions due out to clients that the company kept. Even outside the above mentioned this would be wrong. All affiliates were paid. You will not find a single one who says they were not. Further to that, of all the funds invested into the company (We'll call the company '5') somewhere in the 60 - 70% range was sourced directly by me.
Other funds were sourced by my co-founder. Investments were made through passive advertising without them being attributed to a refer. All in all, assuming we did not pay the affiliates and we had this much, $18,000 would be the number. Of the $180,000 somewhere a bit over $100,000 would have been mine. I never took that, and could not have "Stolen" it.
I don't see the point in getting super technical on everything by going through how, but the number also probably wasn't $180,000. I think this was an overestimate made in a throw away comment by my co-founder (We'll call her 'M') who was (Justifiably) extremely angry at me at the time she came up with the number and added it in a post (Of this multi paragraph post, this one line and one number was taken - if memory servers, all context was left out when the blogger cited this as stolen. Which would make sense. The post was berating me for losing the money. That didn't fit the narrative.

What Backs the Story?

Of all of the claims of wrongdoing (Apart from the fine, which is documented and true) - there is no evidence proposed for any of the claims made. All of it hinges on a story told to the blogger by one person, who was another of my co-founders 'We'll call her 'E'. E was either a late teenager or very early 20s at the time.
In the founding of 5, E was essential. Before 5 I'd been running a service selling trading signals and selling them at $5 a week subscription. I was generating a lot of business (Working all day, every day and having fun with it. Like I did here for a while, but at that time I really was marketing). 5 - 10 people a day could be signing up.
I knew nothing at all about how to structure an online business. No listing of new clients to send emails. Nothing about making membership sites with password access etc. I was working off a Wix site I made myself with no on-boarding system in place. The volume of people joining was crushing me. I could not process them and was getting a lot of PayPal disputes.
I wanted to send them the stuff. Just did not have the process to ensure this was being done. E stepped in and saved me on that. She made original 5 website (On Wordpress, I believe it was later upgraded to something else). Set up memberships payments. Automated listing. Also she suggested changing the name to what the company became. E made the work I was doing work.
After that, she had varying performance. Her gripe in the blog is she was not paid for helping to found the company. Left out of this is the fact she was not paid because she was head of marketing and we were not getting enough clients. Almost all of them coming from me hitting the DMs and signing people up the old fashioned way.
On results of trading, everything was going well (and this was my area). Things were going so well people legit through it must be a ponzi! But we did not have in-flow of clients. On this I again blame myself. I sort of assumed this would all work itself out and did not put focus on fixing problems before they became problems.
There was a lot of pressure on everyone. E got into a new romantic relationship. I think she was heavily influenced by this person (I found E to be good hearted on the whole). E and M started to get along less and less. Then E and M seemed to hate each other. It all seemed to come from nowhere, but it quickly got to the point me and M felt it was not working with E, and she thought the same.
Pretty much everything is based upon the story told to the blogger by E. As I've said before I found her to be a good heart overall and believe she was influenced into doing what she did, and would not have done it on her own gumption. Therefore I won't rip into her; but if you're reading, 'E' (Won't be lol) - that was a bit naughty, wasn't it? Little 'Economic with the truth'.

Why would the blogger post such big claims with no evidence?

People should ask themselves this on the first read through of the blog, to be fair. If you're a single source reporting on a story - tell how you know it's true. I think this mainly came down to revenge. After the ponzi thing I wrote blog line by line ripping the initial blog to bits. It was written in a very cheeky sort of tone, and what I was saying was right.
He then played, "My blog's bigger than your blog" , on which he was right.

If you think there is some smoking gun here in any way, just email the blogger and ask them how they know. What evidence were they ever given any money was stolen. There was none.

Money taken from the company:

In it's sad and drawn out end, cash on hand and assets within the company got down to around $10,000 and we were due out over 10* this to clients who I wanted to pay back. I was not bringing in new business (It seemed unethical to do until I fixed old problems - this was a miscalculation. No business was the big problem) and there was the 50K fine.
The company was essentially bankrupt. I wanted to use the remaining 10K to have one last ditch effort to re-coup losses, or randomly select clients to pay the 10K to. M didn't. At this time we fell out (Forever). I have no idea what happened to that 10K. I think M probably kept it. At the time I was livid about that - but to be honest, after all the work she did she deserved something. Losing was not her fault. To 'M' if you're reading (Won't be), I'm sorry.

What went wrong?


I was not good enough. When I got ahead I thought I was coasting. I came from a background of having nothing and as soon as I started to make a few grand I assumed I was gliding to being a millionaire. I stopped learning. Stopped improving. I never watered what I planted, and it withered and died.
I fail. Turns out you can not coast up a learning curve without ending up on your arse.
submitted by 2020sbear to u/2020sbear [link] [comments]

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